******************** for Apologetics go to Catholic.com after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. The false I suppose I should brush up on my regulations though, that or Mr. Akin should deal with the issues. Is it Possible for a Non-Christians Enter Heaven? P.O. But the first task in loving someone is to understand them. Yet you characterize this as measured and fair, and mockery of it as sophmoric. doesnt seem to perceive the inconsistency of their own message. Jeff was featured on a series for the History Channel, The Stoned Ages which reviewed the Christian approach and philosophy concerning drug and alcohol addiction. Like the time you found out at the last minute you would have to deploy to Iraq for a year or the time someone told you the towers were gone and you did not believe them. Esau, you contradict yourself. Registrant Phone:+1.9512424988 Perhaps SOMETHING will be achieved that way. Since when is it anyones duty to prove innocence? The Apostles were empowered by our Saviour to forgive sins: Christ gave them all power and authority, saying, He who hears you hears me: he who rejects you rejects me.(Luke 10:16) and Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven (Matt. CareBear, The implication of moral equivalency is outrageous and disgusting. It would have been wrong and far worse to have pictures of people who are obviously Catholic holding up such signs. Charitably, please. On both sides, you will notice the symbols of alpha and omega, as well. 1. Silence is the word of the day, it would seem, yet only in relation to pertinent issues. Do you judge a book by its cover? Adam Now what? The daily dying to self, the seeds of every moment are to die for the sake of the Kingdom which is Christ our Lord. I believe that both Christie Davies (an Anglican) and the creator of the modern theory of linguistic humor, Victor Raskin (a Jew), both of whom I know, might disagree with me in particulars, but agree in the main. Even if you exercise restraint you know the combo-boxers are going to cross the line. Which is why he remains so popular, it seems! I asked you for a specific example of when you felt that Jimmy misdirected people. CB: Planning on becoming a Protestant seminary professor, he started an intensive study of the Bible. Eric, oh the drama. May God grant him wisdom, patience, and good humor as he juggles us rabid Cat(holic)s and hands down the faith with the graces he has been given. Or do you not do so now since this was just a RUSE all along to besmirch Catholic Answers reputation!? Sippos response We began listening to the 1993 San Diego debate on sola scriptura with Roman Catholic apologist Patrick Madrid today. There comes a time when the best thing is to simply not engage with the other person and only respond to correct any inaccuracies. Whereas true religion is solely a work of Gods Spirit, to make an eternal people for Himself. Soon as White says Look, Im sorry Ill be cool with im. Jerry, yet the same council says: He blogs on apologetics, culture, humor and lots of stuff. That is a I did not write this article to be HAHA!!!! So we cant just sit back with the radical Muslim theme itself but have to flow with the artists changes as well. Admin ID:DI_471115 Deuteronomy 4:2, Ye because the Bible told me to. What you did was vile, unacceptable, and childish. Do they not apply, or are you choosing to ignore them in order to post another gotcha! by claiming that were not responding? (At our house we would blame the cat) I think you guys need therapy. (there are some YouTube videos of White debating the issue if you'd like to His conversion story, "A Triumph and a Tragedy," is published in Surprised by Truth. I fully deny that we are a mob of homicidal murders. But, in the first place, not all inspired writers have been prophets or workers of miracles; in the second place, in order that prophecies or miracles may serve as proof of inspiration, it must be clear that the miracles were performed, and the prophecies were uttered, to establish the fact in question; in the third place, if this condition be verified, the testimony for inspiration is no longer merely human, but it has become Divine. Or are you going to evade the question once again by mindlessly following the ravings of an Internet Apologist! Please Lord God, heal the wounds he once received by the wrongful acts of someone else. I fail to see how the Bible being 100% Gods word neccessitates the rejection of the FACT that God employed human authors to convey His Word. Whites devoutly stupid photoshop isnt ever going to get remotely similar treatment from his defenders. healthy kind of check-and-balance system From there, the posters here committed the category error of applying that likening to ALL Roman Catholics. Claim your healingTell your doctor that Just what is it about certain combinations of notes that make us feel sad, where others make us feel happy? Theres too much going on in my life tonight to focus. this is a blog where we chat. Its certainly pointless by now, being a well-blasted trench, seeing as we are now fighting White War MCXLVI. Isnt that a littleobsessive? If this were 500 years ago, Id be getting tied to the stake right about now I bet, and thats part of the hilarity of those pictures. To paraphrase the Westminster Catechism: When I first saw them on James White web site I did not think it was funny at all and was shock that he used those images to make a point. Im torn between both myself reading this. It has long been the subject of debate what the right response is to anti-catholic excesses. No. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions. It was supposed to be a hypothetical, as follows (changes in bold): You can observe for yourself how this ruse was initiated from start. It boggles my mind that people pop in, make an outlandish statement and expect to be taken seriously. It takes more than a few monkies to to consitute a cirus! Unsubstantiated personal attacks? I myself found the pictures amusing, much like I find monkeys flinging feces amusing. I just checked Jimmys Store he doesnt seem to carry any action figures of himself or James White? It is a bit off-topic, I know. Isnt that a littleobsessive? But those only work because they are part of the shared substrate of human moral reasoning. Foxfier: Is Homosexuality Consistent with New Testament Obedience? I certainly havent, and dont intend to. It makes you look much less than you are, and whats more, it risks bringing the perception of the message of the Church down to the drivel of Calvin then and now. The Epistle of Jude Thats important. I know Dave Armstrong believes in noting them at least. Clearly, some of us do misunderstand it, as there are many different understandings of Holy Scripture. And the analogy fails as a factual matterIslamic understanding of Quranic inspiration is of a wholly different order than even the most rigorous Christian understanding. Ive seen Daves picture and it was not as inflammatory as JWs. (Mind you, this is a cursory evaluation based on reading the quoted sections while feeding a 9-month old.) In 1930 and to an academic audience, Dr. Whites two examples might have been a generally effective way to say to such a large and diverse crowd that he were frustrated at the remarks that some blogging Catholics had thrown his way (if the internet had magically existed, then). Might want to go back to the start of it to follow the argument, rather than going off on tangents. Those to Whom they personally Handed down they Faith and their Authority? Who or why is an open question but to claim as some here have that it is a conspiracy to make you all look bad. He has authored or contributed to more than twenty four books, including The King James Only Controversy, The Forgotten Trinity, The Potters Freedom, The God Who Justifies and What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Quran. But all of that was a deflection of his assertion. I have forgiven White for his insult against Catholic Christianity, but that does not mean I will say the insult was just fine and nothing to worry about. because the Bible told me to. If you are looking for a graceful design with intricate detailing, then a tattoo like this might be it for you. The pictures That was the topic of discussion that Jimmy asked us to consider, not apologetics unless you know more about the relationship of theology to humor than I do and can discuss that restricted use of theology intelligently. Not much difference there. Not. Which is correct, and to what authority shall we go for the correct interpretation? 1,157 were here. 2) Some persons suggest that Mr. Whites manner of criticizing Dr. Beckwith is wanting in the Charity that he, as member and especially as a leader in the Christian church, is obliged to handle matters with. Westcott and No, racial slurs are obviously unacceptable. Also, the pictures appear to liken those Muslims rallying against Rushdie with blind zeal, who had probably never read anything by him, with those here and other places who rally against White with that same blind zeal, yet have never read a paragraph by him. Im glad to hear God led you through! Luke 10:25- Can anyone translate into plain English that gobbledeguck of Whites that was quoted above? Is making such a claim excused by someone elses previous claim? Fundementalists follow the Hadith and traditions of Islam which explain put the Quran in its context Who Resembles Jesus? No one has the *time* to write a book on the issue, even if they do have an answer. The Greek people believed that the goddess Moira decide when a person to be born and to die, or in a biblical sense when a person should begin or end. Elaborate and vivid sleeve alpha omega tattoo. But all these are rejected outright by many American evangelicals by their preexisting and unbiblical gnostic philosophies. I think one good answer could possibly be that a man who is not OSAS Protestant will not raise his children as such, nor will he witness to others about his Baptist faith. You may opt for a design like this, where the tattoo starts with the rho symbol and ends with a beautifully detailed anchor, with the chi in between. canon contains 1+ n books known only to Author This is a neat easy way to end discussion and avoid any further diuscussion of the issue. This applies to both sides in every situation. 3. If you believe I am not a Christian, then show me charity, please, even in my foolishness. After some consideration, I have come up with an answer for the question posed by Dozie about fifty posts above. I will not argue this point with him. I dont know. Its a rebuttal of Whites book-length critique of the first edition of Geislers book. This from the person who called Esau a liar. That could describe you too Mary Kay After all, if its a good enough argument for your position, then it should be good enough for my position, right? Everybody knows that thinking people express themselves with cat macros. If this were 500 years ago, Id be getting tied to the stake right about now I bet, and thats part of the hilarity of those pictures. All of this revolves around the debate between White and Beckwith. without considering that there might, just might possibly be an alternate explanation Theology, Fuller Theological Seminary, 1989. I mean, after reading him, i see no real refutation or engaging with his points. He got the bright idea today, really only a few hours before we started, to use Zoom to allow folks to call in to the program today. To those who think that the actions here are proving Whites point with the images, you need to look at recent events. CareBear Replies Why cant it be me and my Bible alone? Not much difference there. For one, it can appear as a negative point against these folks; secondly, it places too much importance on the likes of James White. God did use the church, the gathered body (not later ecclesiastical developments regarding unbiblical structures and positions), as a means to establish widespread knowledge of the canon (mediated) so that Scripture will function as He has decreed it to function. God is not impressed by sophistry and manipulative actions. Assuming you conclusion is circular reasoning, but this IS a RC webpage afterall. God Bless. Righteousness lifts up, exalts, a people, a nation. Only the King James Bible hasn't been tampered with! And He will do it because He loves us. OLE JIMBO WHITE APOLOGIZE?? Ive yet to hear James White claim that he DIDNT post those pictures. Mr. Whites post comparing Catholics to Islamic extremists is internet troll-like behavior, and Jimmy called him on that. The Pharisees were definitely into winning, but here they pulled a loser because they didnt get the kingdom concept, that its about the heart, not the housing, be it political, institutional, or otherwise. Parallel Accounts in the Bible & the Quran, The Christology of John, the Christology of the Quran. Just food for thought The nature of canon (mediated) in regard to inspiration is vital to properly understanding the historic canon process. Just because you are getting an alpha omega tattoo, does not mean you have to stick to only those Greek symbols. Immaculate Conception? Maybe not James White, who believes he can judge Jimmys outrage to be feigned. (I wouldnt presume to know whether White really thinks that or merely feigns to; I cant read minds and dont know James White.) For if what James White is doing is wrong, then it is wrong all the time, not just selectively so -as in it is bad when their guys do it but when our guys do it, well we will either not say anything, support them verbally, or even financially promote them and their work. Reasoned dialogue and brotherhood? There is no such correlation between the two, as anyone with the faintest grip on history can say. 44 You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. no? Mr. Akin calling Mr. White on the carpet for inappropriate conduct is not the same as the inappropriate conduct. For that matter, it might have been nice if you mentioned that I told you where the information could be found. Perhaps he can use this not as a tit for tat, but as a chance to expand. A Mormon and an Evangelical in Conversation(1997), Created in the Image of Rome(March, 2002), Myth, Allegory, and Parable: the Presuppositions of John Dominic Crossan, and the Jesus Seminar and Their Importance to Reformed Baptist Theology and Apologetics (3:1, January, 2006), Textual Criticism and the Ministry of Preaching(2:2, July, 2005), Church History, , 2014, New Testament Textual Criticism, Europisches Bibel Trainings Centrum, Berlin, 2013, Polemics, Midwest Center for Theological Studies, 2011, Atheism/Islam, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 2009-2010, Islam, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 2008, Current Issues in Apologetics, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 2005, 2007, Development of Patristic Theology, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 2004, Apologetics, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 2003-2004, 2009, Systematic Theology, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 1996, 1998, 2004, Christian Philosophy of Religion, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 1998-2003, Beginning Greek, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 1995, 1997, 1999, 2001, Greek Exegesis of Ephesians, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 2001, Beginning Hebrew, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 1996, 1998, 2000, Hebrew Exegesis, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 1997, 1999, Christology, Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, 1997, Scholar in Residence, Grand Canyon University, 1995-1996, Apologetics, Grand Canyon University, 1996, Church History, Grand Canyon University, 1991-92, 95, Ph.D. Therehappy? Nobody has defended the URL thing, weve just pointed out that accusations are unfounded and assume the one accused are utter idiots. 18:18) Surely something must be visible to bind and loose, to be heard and obeyed. Thats all well and good, but the artist who changed the picture changed the story in so doing. We dont have that luxury, since were not God. Par for the course. Tech ID:DI_471115 It is an effective way to shut down all communication with your opponents though. Read the post. I did a Whois search and found out this info: I have a great deal of sympathy for the notion that Guardian feels that he needs months to give any sort of response that isnt going to be called an unsubstantiated attack on Whites character. But after that the lists are made up of anything that comes to hand; of anything that can be put in the same catalogue without being in the same category. White came across as one of conspiracy fundamentalists. With all due respect, I do not think you got the gist of what I was saying. We deserve the ridicule of White like good children deserve cake. Have you even paid attention to the White v. Beckwith debate??? If you are wrong about Sola Scriptura, then you are in a state of rebellion against Jesus Christ. This isnt an apologetics website, and frankly, most of us arent here to talk apologetics. Islamist= radical Muslim, not to be confused with the non-murderous Muslims. Theres another Mary here also.). The images are disgusting to ordinary human sensibilities because they imply moral equivalence where such a claim is outrageous and offensive. The minimum requirement is mutual respect. Certainly the Catholic Church has its share, as does any very large body of people, unfortunately. I dont see that were taught to forgive only those who repent. I mean, what do you tell people who stumble onto the site looking for theological answers who have never heard of James White? I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? He was born a catholic, like many got hijacked away from the church (just read that droves of Latinos are leaving for the charismatics which does not bode well for the church) and as he has grown a bit older, like all children has decided to return home. I expect this from him and other anti-Catholics. 2 Timothy 2:24-26 The Lords servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. That hardly seems right. If you have a battle with the truth, thats your battle. Just who are you accusing here???? Of course, youre a part of the mob that refuses to see all of the issues, or any refutation of alleged issues. Anyway, if you want to defend White, thats your choice. The Lord turned his life upside down at that time and filled his heart with a passion to end abortion and rescue preborn babies. I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. a critical similarity between Catholic authoritarianism and Islamic authoritarianism Its not the priest who forgives me in the Confessional, its Jesus. What would you say if I told you that the only logical response to that quoted statement was that you had obviously not never listened to White at all? So youre saying that you would consider (lets say) a racial slur acceptable so long as it wasnt intended as serious even by its author? A few obseravations: It is as if yall are unaware of the passage where Paul says love does not take account of wrong done to it. And, as he is becoming more stupid, I can only imagine it as a sign that he is moving closer to Rome Minor arguments would have been resolved by the awesome power of the Holy Spirit bearing witness to the true Canon, and history would witness to the fact that most Christians just spontaneously/miraculously agreed on the texts of the scriptures themselves. (Wonder if he knows that logic has developed since Aristotelian logic? Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected. If you have questions about Catholicism, just ask them. If you are looking for intriguing alpha omega tattoo ideas, then you are going to end up in love with this one! saved without works. Jn 8:44: Compare the iconoclasm, similar views on divine election, disdain for priesthood, and belief that the individual can read scripture outside of any binding authoritative framework, and voila: Critical similarities between Reformed Christianity and Islam. I think Jimmy is right to leave the debate at this point. And way more amusing than the actual photoshop. Im sure Jimmy would have, and indeed has, no problem respectfully discussing or debating theological issues with non-Catholics, under normal conditions. (By the way, wheres your reply to my interaction with your question? Eph 4:14: Jimmy never said anything to the effect of neener, neener, but I do agree with him asking friends of Mr. White to explain why his actions are inappropriate, since he MIGHT be more liable to take their words to heart. Pot; meet Mr Kettle. (Actually said by an Those were the daaaays. That said, some interesting points were brought up (and occasionally trampled). Your comment uhm I did post at least one specific theological question that White was asking has at least two holes in it. It was a delight talking with you. And the illogic of sola scriptura is so simple: Its not in the scriptures. If you are interested in capturing true Greek essence on your skin, then this design may surely spark your interest. The Law of Have-Your-Cake-And-Eat-It-Too will cover any eventuality. Assertion 1) Beckwith is a liar. The Epistle of Barnabas The two domains are pointing to two different IP addresses. Dr. White is to hienous as to poke fun at the double standards a few Roman Catholics then this guy must be just as badright? You can. Even Paul lost his cool on one occasion (though I dont recall reading the apology anywhere hmmm, maybe its between him & God?). That sounded so much like the playground nyahh, nyahh, same to you! that I actually laughed out loud. Jesus says, And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins, and we also forgive everyone who sins against us. Thats everyone, anyone and anything. using James Whites own words but disguised as a Islamic fundamentalist. I beg those who are on the other side of the fence to remember that if we do not respond with love to those we disagree with, we are guilty of a sin very little different from Dr. Whites. Im not sure what you think participation in the Hypostatic union gets you except the opportunity to use big impressive sounding theological terms. Anybody (other than Catholic Anwers) can seize and own a url??? at this point. The point is irrationality not hate. a faith that works The Sayings of the Seers[19] Why trust one of those as absolute truth and dismiss the others as mistakes? Dr. White does not look at debates as something won or lost I would like to know why you find it more unreasonable to go to the disciple of the disciple of the one chosen by Christ himself than to take a route never spoken of by Christ or the Bible, and just confess to God by yourself. 1. Question: if the Bible is 100% Gods Word (as I believe as well), why do we talk about Paul, Peter, Matthew, etc. But we on the outside can see the similitude. I cant name one error, despite publically exclaiming you have made many, but give me three months of research and I will get back to you.. And there are a few on both sides who have not descended, either. In other words, if I have a list of books I say was divinely inspired and you have a different (although overlapping) list of books that you say was divinely inspired, which (if either) is the correct list, and how does one make that determination? The only thing that keeps the trolls here is our inability to honestly express gratitude to White for the credit he bestows upon Holy Mother Church and, by extension, us. If youve already said your list of books is divinely inspired, then you (i.e. Simple Amazing thread. pits of darkness! White then argues that the clarity of the Canon (mediated) is not dependant upon human beings, councils etc. Living word. I consider the discussion way off-track with regards to the original topic of this thread. your inability and/or unwillingness to recognize that your perceptions may be filterd by a bias, I should add that the result of the six-step progression I just documented is that so-called apologetics becomes an exercise in arguing about who is more offensive than whom. Foxfire, my mistake. Perhaps we should simply call you a liar, as you announced you were leaving what, three posts ago? therefore God will protect the writings(artifact) and ensure that the canon of the writings is complete. See above comment. not a form of probation requiring our good behavior. Finally, he throws up his hands and says that this is the latest in a long series of I forgot Jimmys blog doesnt carry formatting through paragraph breaks. Thank you Carebear and friends, and God bless you all. Relationship implies that it goes both ways. Does it convey the information that you claim that he wants to convey, namely: When White does this analogy to jihadism to make his point, I think he does it out of a deep sense of frustration at how the other side doesnt seem to perceive the inconsistency of their own message.? accurately analogize it to jihad-think I have a fuzzy memory, but I seem to recall that Akin did just that a few internet feet above where we dialogue now. its history, developmemt, and definition is immaterial ~Stu. Will you in turn address one of my issues? Bill912, It seems a bit strange to hear (Especially from a Calvinist) that the Canon of Scripture was borne into existence and unbeknownst to God before the writing of scripture proper. The Reformers werent reforming against Trent. Carebear is right if you dont act like that then you are not included so dont worry about it. Jonathan, that last little tidbit is an argumentum ad populum and should be recanted. 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